as i kind of alluded to in my last post this "cash donation to the orphanage" thing has been eating me up. our agency does require a cash donation to the orphanage. i am terrified that i am furthering corruption and bad things happening in the adoption world. anyway, i discovered all of this AFTER my dossier is already at the Vietnamese embassy, so i was feeling helpless, like if there is something bad going on, it was too late to change it. So i did some research. I am part of a liststerve on a yahoo group, so i posted my research findings on that groups site, i thought i might post them here also, as my blogging buddies tend to be a gentler-kinder bunch, and I would love to hear your opinions on this. i know some of them may be varying, but i am interested in what you have to say.
in addition- to the families who have already been to vietnam, were you asked specifically if you gave a cash donation to the orphanage at the embassy interview?
also, laurie - you commented that you had done a lot of thinking about this stuff, and i would love to hear your thoughts. can you email me directly? crisandemilie@yahoo.com or my military email address, which you emailed me at earlier, so i think you already have that one.
thanks for your support!
Hello,
I am a new member. This is really my first post. I have been following along the thread about cash donations to agencies, and as I read and discovered more about this issue, the more uncomfortable I became. My husband and I selected our adoption agency because it is the only one in Hawaii. We didn't really research other agencies. I guess we were a little naive to the possibility of any illegal proceedings happening with international adoption.
When we got our fee schedule it was clearly stated that there was a $7000 fee to be paid in cash to the orphanage. When we saw this, we thought 'great, the money will be going directly to our baby's orphanage to help support her and the other children" we were happy there was no middle man. Now I am starting to understand the reasons people are hesitant about this type of procedure. Since the start of reading this chain, I have been doing a ton of research. i wanted to find the actual, official guidline from the bilateral agreement. It is easy to be swayed by rumors that it is "illegal" to bring cash into the country, and I wanted to find out for absolutely sure that we were not participating in something illegal.
Based on the bilateral agreement, it does not appear this procedure is illegal. I am attaching the link so that anyone who is interested can view the document.
http://travel.state.gov/pdf/vn_final_agreement.pdf
Pay particular attention to Article 16 1.c
"There were not any improper requests for compensation for the consent to adoption"
This does not state that it is illegal to pay a cash donation to the orphange.
The agreement gets more specific in Article 17.4
"The parties support the principle that appropriate adoption service providers make their fee schedules publicly available in advance of an adoption".
I would interpret this last portion to protect adoptive parents from having additional fees "sprung on them" once they are in country that may be used for truly unethical purposes however, it does not appear to prohibit cash payments directly to an orphanage that are stated in advance.
Our adoption cost will be about $20,000 (including travel). Our agency does not have an "international fee" like i have seen many agencies have in which this fee is paid directly to the agency. I have seen this fee be $10-13,000. I don't know what this "international fee" that many agencies require is, but instead of having this fee, our agency is having us deliver a cash contribution. what happens to that cash (or to the 10-13000 others are paying their agencies) I have no idea. I wish i knew, and i can't say that it will be used appropriately. But i also don't know what the "international fee" is used for. it could be used for salaries of the adoption agency workers or who knows what it is used for. I guess my point is whether you are paying $10,000 to your agency, or $7,000 to the orphanage, there is no way to know what really happens to that money. BUT it does not appear that any of the language says either of these things are illegal based on the bilateral contract. As for the ethical aspect, i guess everyone will have to decide on their own if they would rather their agency have the money, or the orphanage have the money.
Juneau
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7 comments:
In my case, the agency actually owns and runs the orphanage, so it's reasonable to think that the International Fee would help the cause as it's all essentially the same. I see your point about thinking it good to give the moeny directly to the orphanage, but the fact that it is a "cash donation" would make me a little weary. That's just me. I'd also be curious how this works for you tax purposes. Can you still cound it as part of your adoption expense? Will there be a receipt or is it just given with no paper trail? I'm from a family of bankers & accountant and tend to worry about these types of things.
Hi, I was looking at your blog today and saw your post. I thouoght I would share our experience. When we did a China adoption, we took a "cash Donation" directly to the orphanage. It seemed so cold but in my mind, I told myself it was for the kids. Who knows what happens to that money.
With our vietnam adoption we are doing now(just waiting for travel dates) our agency has an international fee. It was money we had to pay upon acceptance of our referral that the agency is going to wire a portion of over to the orphanage. The other money goes to in country costs we pay in advance ie. medicals, baby's passport, transportation to G&R, etc.
I guess what makes sense to me is that some agency's may be equipped to wire the money so clients don't have to deal with it and others may not. I would still check into it though.
Good Luck
Heather
I would encourage you to also join the yahoo group Adoption Agency Research and post these questions and concerns there...it seems like there are some very knowledgeable people who will share their thoughts and experiences.
One thing to keep in mind also, depending on what you may learn, is that you can change agencies...your dossier belongs to you.
Good luck!
Emilie,
I am wondering if you would feel better by talking with your agency(if you have not already done so?)That would be the firt place to start. It is not worth making yourself sick with worry over it. Speak with them, they may be able to clear things up and give you some peace.I actually spoke with my agency and their attorney follows the APV blog, and all though he recomends it for support he also cautions that often people are speaking of issues they might not know everything about and then everyone gets upset.
Take care,
Tamara
Hey, just sent you a LONG email! Let me know what you think.
At our INS meeting we were specifically asked what sums of money we were required to pay in country. Since we paid everything before we left we were safe to say $0.
I really see where your concern is and it would be my concern too. Are there other families from your agency who have traveled already that can tell you whether or not it caused a problem during the exit interview? That would really be the key. If you're only worried about it causing problems in country, then ask your agency...but, if you're worried about whether or not it's ethically on the up-and-up then you should reevaluate whether or not you trust your agency with your adoption. Boy, that "sounded" terrible...I'm sorry if that was really pessimistic. :-)
Things to think about:
Vietnam as of yet has not set a specific amount for adoptions so fees do vary from province to province and agency to agency. It would help if they had a set country fee.
We, also, were asked if we made large cash payments at our INS interview. This was the end of December of 2006.
We did not have to do cash donations in-country, however I've never seen an itemized list of where all of our international fee goes so who is to say which is better except that my international fee is something for which I have a reciept and am able to claim on my taxes. Cash handed to someone is not near as easy to trace as a wired international fee.
One more thing, it is not uncommon for people in Vietnam to NOT have a bank account or use a bank at all. We were told the percentage of those who have savings accounts and I remember being shocked at how small this number was. So perhaps the cash is simply how this province operates, it's a stretch but I would try to be finding out if I were you. You would hate to get all the way to your INS interview only to find out something is wrong.
My suggestion would be to email the embassy. Explain exactly what you did in your post. They are there to help you complete an ethical and legal adoption and they will advise you in any way they can on the matter. It does take them a couple days to get back to you, by the way.
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